What Is Falconry ft Vahé of Falcon Force

Announcer: 0:01

Welcome to the Backyard Bounty Podcast from HeritageAcresMarket.com, where we talk about all things backyard poultry, beekeeping, gardening, sustainable living, and more. And now here's your host, Nicole.

Nicole: 0:17

Hello, everybody. And thank you for joining us for another episode of Backyard Bounty. I'm your host, Nicole, and today we're joined by Vahé with Falcon Force. And today we're going to be talking about falconry and Falcon Eight Company. So Vahé, thank you so much for joining me today.

Vahé 0:33

My pleasure.

Nicole: 0:34

So this is a topic that I'm especially passionate about. Certainly not as experienced as you are. But falconry, you know, it's something that I don't know that a lot of people have heard of, or maybe people that have seen it in movies, or medieval textbooks don't realize that it's still alive and well in today's society. So maybe we could just start by talking about your company, Falcon Force and then kind of dive into what falconry is.

Vahé 1:03

Fantastic. Falconry goes back to 4500 years of history where before gunpowder was invented mankind tamed down the used to be the eagle and then it became the Sacred Falcon probably coming from the Altai region of Mongolia which is ancient China present day Mongolia, Kazakhstan and all that stuff. That's where the birth of falconry goes back to anyway, so before gunpowder was invented mankind to tame down the Raptors to in order to put food on the table, and then eventually, there were easier means of taking game with the aid of a gun, or, you know, archery equipment or whatnot. Therefore, falconry became more of a back burner, a chic sport or pastime of rich and wealthy and royalty and so on. So here we are 4500 years later or more, and falconry is still very much alive. It's a very primitive way of hunting and having a symbiotic relationship with a raptor. We don't put food on the table that's the objective is no longer to put food on the table with our Raptors even though someone like myself who lives off the land oftentimes ends up having that relationship with my bird and you know, consuming some of the prey that is gathered in the process of practicing modern day falconry.

Nicole: 2:21

In one thing that a question that I received a lot when I tell people about falconry is I think there's a misconception that people are keeping these Raptors or birds of prey whether it's a falcon or, or a hawk, that they're keeping them as pets. And that's actually not what they're doing and actually not legal. So this is just a sportsmanship way of hunting that could maybe be considered a hobby as well.

Vahé 2:48

Yes, I mean, it would be cool. For someone like myself, it would be a complete insult to have someone called me a pet keeper. These are not pets. They are wild animals. They're are predators that need to catch, in order to be in the right mindset, they need to be flown, they need to catch their own game they need to be fed. Most importantly, they need to be at wild caught game because nothing captive bred, can supplement what their variety of their diet or the quality of their diet coming from the wild may be. So there are people who do it, you know, you go to Renaissance fairs and so on, you oftentimes may see Falconer standing there educating people and so on. But that's not the objective of falconry, per se, that's just an individual educating the public basically.

Nicole: 3:34

And I think in some of those cases, it might be somebody from like a raptor rehabilitation facility. So that might be a handicap bird of prey that's not able to survive in the wild. So it now lives in captivity at a facility like that, that is then used as an educational outreach animal.

Vahé 3:51

Absolutely, and the best thing for the general public is to understand these Raptors, not many people get to see them, you know, a couple, three feet four feet away, and that's whole experience in itself hopefully, you know, lights up at fire in in a child's mind where they want to pursue it from a conservationist, his point of view and for the for the well being of the sport and so on. And that's what that's what education comes in, and it's extremely important. And I honor that 100%.

Nicole: 4:17

My own personal opinion is I don't know how you could have that experience and not be inspired. It's really, it's really magical. And I think it's just, it's something that I really just am passionate about, even though unfortunately, I don't have a bird myself right now. How did you get into falconry?

Vahé 4:35

It's a long story, but basically I was seven years old. My brother and I went to a juice booth. This was overseas. We went to a I'm sorry, we went we went to a public swimming pool and and on the way back, we stopped at this corner of the street sort of free standing juice booth. And when our turn came to place our order, my brother noticed that he was four years older than me notice that there was a Eurasian Kestrel sitting on a block right next to the juicer. So we asked the guy if it was for sale and sure enough it was but we didn't have that kind of money on us, even though it wasn't outrageous. But so we paid a down payment, took the bus, went home, grabbed money, took the bus, came back, paid the guy, and he put it in a paper bag. And we took, you know, put the took the bus went home. And of course, we got there, and we unveil this thing, and it was the coolest thing we ever had experienced. Absolutely no idea what falconry was and what equipment or weight management or anything like that was we just had this cool, cool bird. Ironically, we were just kids enjoying this relationship we had with the sport and we made some right choices without knowing. Now that I look back when we made the best decisions we could have made for that bird which is part of the thing was that we would go up on the rooftop and set live traps and get English sparrows to come in and then you know would bring him in and my brother would sit on the couch. Mind you, my parents were very well off and we had Italian top notch furniture. My brother would sit on this couch and hold a bird on a glove. And I would take this Sparrow and I pulled out a couple of primary so it wasn't 100% capable of getting away and then I'd throw it in the air and this bird would come off and we'd see there go "Did you see that? Did you see that?"

Vahé 6:16

It was blood and feather and gore and everything hanging from curtain rods that you could imagine, I believe it was really bad mom would come home and "You can never do this again". "Okay, mom, okay, mom". And sure enough, a couple days later, we do the same thing over and over again. We had this thing for about, I don't know, four or five years. And then this bird became very aggressive when it became an adult bird. It was a miscreant. And it would attack anyone, strange guests or whatnot would come to our house, this thing would straight go for their face. So we decided that, you know, with our parents and so on, we collectively decided that it was no longer safe for us to have this thing. So we went in and traded in for 14 parakeets that were free flying in our bedroom as if it was any better. But anyway, going back I mean my brother and I breed and breed and owned and, you know, they had everything from tropical fish to chameleons to snakes to Rhesus monkeys. I mean, we've had a ton of animals. So it was just another amazing experience we've had. And then I, I came here in the US in May of 1988, as a 13 year old child. That was at timeframe where I was detached from Falconry, this is before internet, of course and before cell phones and all that good stuff. And then in my tail end of my high school years and early part of my college years, I started field trialing German Shorthaired Pointers. So I was at a field trial. Now mind you at the end of hunting regulation booklets here in California at the time, there was a section for falconry, but how would how would someone like me come across a Falconer? But anyway, so I was, I was at a field trial in California City, California, and we're standing by the bonfire at the Monday evening and I overheard a conversation between to field trailers colleagues of mine and one of them said Joe's famous dog Golden Tooth got bought by wealthy folk Falconer and I just about spasm you can imagine. Anyway, make a long story short, I asked I asked him who this guy was and they said, they didn't know who the guy was but he was a veterinarian out of Ridgecrest, California. So back at the time, I was an avid fly fisherman. So next time I was going to the Eastern Sierras I pulled up to the entrance to Ridgecrest, California, there was a phone booth, and underneath the phone was hanging a the Yellow Pages and I just it was 4am in the morning and I grabbed that thing and I just rip the chain off, throw it in the car and drove to my fly fishing destination. Anyway, after, after a morning of fishing at lunchtime, I sat there and I actually just turn that one page. I don't know why I was I took the whole thing with me. But anyway, so make a long story short, I went down the list and by the time from a payphone by the time I called the fourth veterinarian office. They said "Oh, that's not us. That's Jeff Novak at the Rosemont animal hospital. Anyway, so I called him and of course, I was at a payphone. I didn't have a way for him to call me back and they wouldn't put me in touch with him. But they said, we'll take the number down. He's in surgery when it comes down. When he comes out, he'll call you back. So about an hour later, in frigid cold, you know, temperatures out there standing next to the phone booth finally called back and we touch base and my background is photography at the time I was studying photography at Art Center College of Design in Pasadena. And immediately the the interest of possibly doing a book project on falconry, which was a very familiar world to me, came to my mind. And so I started that approach. And sure enough, I photographed him the following week, I went back and photographed him. And then I asked him, I said, Are there any other falconers in the US? He says, Oh, yeah, just in California are 740 falconers, and we're meeting at a double at the Doubletree Hotel in Bakersfield. So anyway, that's how it started. I went there, and sure enough, there were hundreds of birds sitting on the lawn, the weathering yard that was set up and then I just got suckered right back into falconry, as you can imagine, it's been a very well journey. And I've, I could say comfortably that I've ruined my life for the sport. And if I could do it again, I would find way I wish I had ways to discover falconry when I came to the US at an earlier age, because there was about six or seven years that I was detached from it.

Nicole: 10:18

And so now fast forward to today, and you're still flying and now you have actually made a business out of your documentary with the Falcon abatement?

Vahé 10:25

Yes, in 2010. As I said, I'm a photographer. I did commercial advertising work here at a studio in Los Angeles. And in 2010. I decided that I was that that career was after 14 years of photography. I was done with that career and I wanted to try something that was closer to my heart closer to my passion. So I closed up the studio and so on and I started Falcon Force. First two years I was subcontracting on their on their another company. And then by the third year, I got my own offers and my own contracts calling and the following year I had the large theme in San Diego. I don't know if I'm supposed to name them but SeaWorld in any event. To this day now we came from a one man show in 2010. Here we are almost 10 years later company has 26 falconers currently working with us. We're spread between eight states. Anyway, so it's been an incredible journey and, you know, the dream of my life.

Nicole: 11:22

It's amazing as it's always so inspiring to hear people that have been able to take things that they're so passionate about and turn it into a way to be sufficient and and create an income.

Vahé 11:33

Absolutely. That's what it's all about.

Nicole: 11:36

And I assume this is a term that maybe some of our listeners haven't heard of before. So can you tell us a little bit more about what Falcon abatement is?

Vahé 11:44

Falcon based bird abatement is using practical predator prey relationship to protect. In our case, we do blueberries, cherries, wine grapes. We do theme parks, resorts, golf courses, industrial sites, whatever it may be marinas airport bases. Air Force bases, military bases, whatever it may be. So our birds are trained birds are pursuing the species that are causing the problem. Normally chasing them out and then breaking off coming back to get rewarded for it. It's a sustainable, very, very green and clean way of doing bird bird abatement. And usually, nothing gets hurt. It's just a matter of presence of that Raptor. And the way the prey species are genetically wired, biologically wired to deter a predator species like that. And that relationship has been, you know, there's multiple abatement companies currently rising in every part of the country or the world I should say nowadays, but it's not a very old industry. It's, I think it started probably, I would say, in about 25 years ago, it started becoming a curiosity. And now it's a very positive and to the public's eye, it's a very positive it's nothing gets hurt, it's just hazeing using get predator against the prey species that causes harm. But whether it's financial health hazard or whatever it may be liability in an airport or whatnot.

Nicole: 13:09

So this is probably taking a bit of a sidestep and just kind of talking about the general overview of falconry, but I guess from my my own curiosity, let's say you're working something like, say the blueberry fields, so obviously, you're gonna have the problem birds that are wanting to stay there because there's a food source. How, if you're chasing them off with one of your rafters, how does that discourage the birds from just flying around and then coming back? Like how long does it take for them? Do you ever like fully scare off these birds for long periods of time? Or is this something that you have to go out and fly to fields regularly? I guess I just don't understand.

Vahé 13:51

Yes, let me explain that. So the way it works out is as the the prey species which are generally speaking English starlings or which are basically non native to this continent, they were introduced here back in 1800s as a wedding release, and they have taken over the continent, or it could be American Robin's at a lesser quantity or whatnot. But the way it works out is as they're not attracted to green fruit. As the fruit starts ripening, it's the sugar that that they're attracted to. So they will come in in big large flocks, sometimes startings could be coming in at flocks of 2000 birds, and they could decimate that 100 acre blueberry field in a matter of three or four days and come talking about a complete loss. So the way it works out is each of us assigned a field will be there from the beginning to the end as the as the blueberry start blushing, changing color, they go from red to blue, you know deep blue and and almost purple before they're harvested. And so we're there basically from the very beginning to all the way to the end where the fruit is harvested safely and gone. In the case of wine grapes, similar situation where they're normally 12 hours a day, each person is assigned I can cover up to 1000 acres 1500 acres even with my team of six birds. So I show up first thing in the morning before sunup, and I'm on parked on a hilltop and I'm watching and, you know, minutes later half hour later a group of birds will come in and I'll cut I'll cut one of my birds loose and Edward will chase that flock out and they as long as they stay above the Falcon, they are safe. So they will go higher and higher and higher before they disintegrate into the oblivion going in different directions. And so then my bird's called down and that bird's fed a small ration, and that bird on that goes on the back burner. And if the next flock comes in half hour later, another bird will go you know, chasing them so it's just an ongoing chase. In the event of a crop situation because you have an inherent problem and that is the attraction to the food that you have there, it is an ongoing problem but if places like golf courses for example, we have migratory birds that will come and want to use a pond as a as a refuge and if you put the pressure on them a few consecutive days and then those birds will start to thinning out. So there is there is a win win situation and there's also that which we continues to put the pressure on them until the fruit is taken safely.

Nicole: 16:10

Thank you for explaining that. I've always been curious about that. So what kind of birds do you fly currently?

Vahé 16:17

Currently for abatement work, I'm guessing you're asking about abatement birds?

Nicole: 16:21

Both.

Vahé 16:21

Okay for abatement birds normally I use male long wings, in other words Falconine and they could be anywhere between male Peregrine Falcons male Barbary Falcons, male Rednecks Shaheens or hybrids of all of the above some some people use Optimara Falcons, I used to have about 12 of them not no longer on any. So that's primarily you want small horses for courses as they say. You want small birds that will be the proper sized Raptor chasing a prey species. Let's say I was doing a land field and the problem is seagulls, those smaller birds are not going to be effective. So you want to step it up to female Raptors, female Peregrines, female Redneck Shaheens, Sacred Falcons and so on. And let me explain something here. The all in all Raptor species, the females are a third larger than the males. So that's why when I say the males are smaller, just so the audience understands where we're coming from.

Nicole: 17:17

Sure. And what do you fly personally?

Vahé 17:19

Personally, I hunt with Gyr, Paragon hybrids, which is the as you know, the Peregrine Falcon is the fastest bird on the face of this planet. They can swoop up to 240 miles an hour. The Gyr Falcon comes from the northern hemisphere, and they are the most powerful and the largest of the Falconine tail chasing tarmigan on the tundra I mean that's their that's their strong point. So artificially inseminated Gyr Paragon hybrids are made and they are the Ferrari of falconry, basically Ferrari Falcon the birds Yeah, they're like designer Falcon. Yes. And they are. They're like mules they are hardworking birds. They are extremely aerial and extremely powerful birds. That's what I like to fly when I'm hunting my birds.

Nicole: 18:05

You're give me butterflies in my stomach.

Vahé 18:08

Trust me, wherever every time I handle my own birds, I get butterflies.

Nicole: 18:11

I bet. So, let's say that maybe some of our listeners are starting to get little butterflies in their stomach too. So stateside, it's not quite so easy as picking up a bird at the juice stand and taking it home in the bag.

Vahé 18:26

Yeah.

Nicole: 18:26

What are some of the steps that somebody would need to take to get involved in factory?

Vahé 18:32

Absolutely. So depending on what state you're in, the best step is to call your state fish and game office and ask them if there is a Falconry organization that is active in that state. In most states, falconry is legal. I think there's one or two states that it may not be but once you call the Falconry Association, then they can you can introduce yourself and start the process by hopefully meeting some of the members and or most clubs will have an apprentice chairman and they will be able to help you through the process. But the process is not difficult in any ways. But it is a process that needs to be followed very strictly. It's lots of restrictions and rules and regulations on that. And rightfully because not everyone should be able to put their hands on a bird, keep it as a pet.

Nicole: 19:19

So, the first step would be to get connected with a club. But that is important because as a new falconers, an apprentice, Falconer they are going to need a sponsor.

Vahé 19:32

Yes, and know if you wanted to get into that depth, but so, so when you make that connection, the first step is to go to your local department fish and game office and take a test that written test for which you you will get a booklet that your club will recommend, where to get and so on, and you will do this study guide. Once you're ready, you make an appointment, you go take a test, and with an 80% or better score, you get an approval. The next step is to have a fish and game officer to come and inspect your facility and that's highly regulated what measurements are and spacing and so on, so forth. And then after that you're hopefully with the help of members in your local state club, you'll find yourself a sponsor. There are three stages of licensing in the falconry, in the US falconry, there's apprenticeship which is the first two years General Faulconer, which is the next five years after your apprenticeship. And then after your seventh year collectively speaking you become a Master Falconer. So your sponsor would have to be probably a in most states a General or better and they'll sponsor you for the next two years under their care and guidance you will trap your first bird from the wild and the reasoning behind that is if you, should you mismanage your bird and that bird gets lost, that bird reverts back to the wild in a matter of 48 hours so there's no contamination of gene pool and then yeah, for the first two years you have one bird that you will care for. And then once you become a General Falconer, you're allowed to have in most states two birds and then once you are a Master Falconer you can have unlimited number of birds. And it may differ from state to state. So that's something that they were State Secretary can answer for you.

Nicole: 21:07

And that's interesting that you should touch on that because it's admittedly been several years since I've been involved in this personally so that the rules might have changed. I believe here in Colorado, you can have of course, the one bird is a General or I'm sorry, one bird is an apprentice, it can only be a select breed of bird. And then when it's General, when you're a General, I believe, and I could be mistaken, again, that you can have three birds and then I thought as a Master in Colorado, you could only have five.

Vahé 21:35

First so your apprentice birds are in most states, I think Utah is an exception that I'm aware of. But in most states, your apprentice birds are either American Kestrels, or Redtail Hawks. Those are the two of the most common Raptor species in the US. And that's what primarily most states allow for falconry apprenticeship sort of birds trap from the wild that is. And again, every state is different and used to be all managed by the US Fish and Wildlife. But I think in 2012, that each state took the responsibility of managing their own falconry departments is still still under the US Fish and Wildlife jurisdiction, because these are migratory birds covered on their NBTA Migratory Bird treaty act. And so they still have a say in it, but each state has their own sub some say in what those numbers are in species and so on.

Nicole: 22:31

About 10 years ago, I'd say without doing the math, officially, I used to live in Wyoming, which I know is where you live as well. And at that point in time, when I was involved in falconry there, a master level, could fly a Golden Eagle, is that still applicable in Wyoming?

Vahé 22:51

Absolutely, it is. You do need an endorsement for eagles. That means you have to have experience with a large Raptor. And each state again is different. As far as how they spell that out, in most states, a large Raptor means that Ferruginous Hawk, a Gyrfalcon, other set species, great horned owl or whatnot, or Eagle experience at a facility like a rehab center and so on. So for two years you need you need to have experience handling large Raptors. And then you need I think, in general, you need to Eagle falconers to endorse you as capable. And then you can get your endorsement and go from there.

Nicole: 23:30

I know for a while, and this might have changed too but Wyoming was one of the only places that you could buy an Eagle so I was curious if that was still in the regulations or not?

Vahé 23:41

Yes, Wyoming is not the only state you can fly Eagles you can fly Eagles in most states that you can practice falconry. Oh, Wyoming was the only only state allowing the wild taken Eagles on a depredation permit.

Nicole: 23:53

Okay.

Vahé 23:54

Fish and Wildlife would assign you a game warden and because of areas where a lamb were getting slaughtered by prediting eagles. They would allow a specific take on an immature bird. And you'd go out there with a fishing game warden and you would trap this bird and then it would become a falconry bird. Hopefully that's coming back. I think I think that is in the process of coming. I think this last year, one eagle was taken, there was about 10 years of about no take. And this last year, they opened one if I'm not mistaken, one or two birds were taken out of Wyoming again.

Nicole: 24:26

Interesting. You know, in this process, you have to have the proper facility for your bird of prey, whatever you start with. So obviously, you're not just putting your a hawk in your cage in your back bedroom. So in order to be a Falconer, you're you're going to need to be somebody that has at least some land in that residential backyard is fine, but you can't necessarily be somebody who lives in an apartment or a condo you have to have an outdoor facility for this bird. But is there any other type of folks that falconry would not be a good fit for?

Vahé 25:02

You know, there are people who even live in apartments. But as long as you have your you you have a facility in a place where these birds could be exposed to direct sunlight. They could, you know, they could weather out most of the day and be in a good healthy environment, you could still do it and it's not a matter of you have to have land per se. But there are regulations where you put that facility, your ews and e-w-s that is that's a falconry term old term terminology, which is your your enclosure where you're keeping this bird in and that's the dimensions and the weights made has to meet your state regulations. But as long as long as you have that that's somewhere it could be you could live in an apartment but at your in-laws house, you may have permission to put this facility and have the bird safely kept there. And so on.

Nicole: 25:46

I guess that's a good clarification.

Vahé 25:48

There's always I mean, again, it all depends on where you live. In my case in Wyoming two winters ago, we went down minus 43 degrees. So the the extreme cold is my problem. And so I built a facility, 2700 square foot facility from ground up with in floor heating, so I could keep these birds there safely. There are birds that are more susceptible to frostbite than others. Harris hawks are a great example they come from the Sonoran desert and they're there they are always on the in lower, you know, lower states lower hotter climates. So for their sake, I needed to have a facility that I can control the temperature and of course, all I need to do is keep it at 40 degrees and above the frost line and I'm good.

Nicole: 26:30

Do you have any other tips or word of advice for anybody that would like to get started in falconry?

Vahé 26:36

I would say find a Falconer nowadays it's much much easier with with the internet and all the searches you could do and you know, depending on your state and but find a Falconer and just go and spend time with them. Humble yourself. Make yourself available if they need help cleaning their mews every Faulconer needs help. As far as cleaning stuff. I'm a breeder myself, so if I get a phone call like that and someone says, "You know, I'd like to come and help out and see how it's done", that's the right approach. I mean, I don't expect it, even finding a sponsor. It's not something that anyone's obligated no one's getting paid for it. So it's a it make yourself available and useful and, and that's a good way to put your foot in the door and have someone have that personal relationship with you and see your you know, worth their time to invest into you and have you become a Falconer. There are lots of people who get it get in there because it's just cool to have a raptor. That's not the right approach. I personally do not take on any apprentices unless I know they are going to hunt with them, hunt with their birds, and unless they prove themselves to be capable of taking wild game, they will not in my under my apprenticeship, they will not be upgraded to their General. So I'm very strict and they my approach is that this is the it's for the conservation of the sport. These birds are Raptors that need to be hunted and this needs to support long term visual and conservation of the wildlife that we're handling. And they are wild.

Nicole: 28:06

Yeah, I think that's, that's absolutely true. And, you know, it always makes me so sad. I do a lot with poultry as well. And I always see people that are posting pictures of it's usually Redtails and great horns that maybe picked off one of their chickens. And of course, this person's upset. So they want to know how they can go about trapping them or shooting them or, or something like that. And it's, it just aggravates me to no end.

Vahé 28:34

Absolutely. And that's what that's what that's what that education. That's when that education program comes in handy to just make awareness to the general public and they were here before us and it's easy for us to put our fowl in a enclosure, chicken wire, whatever it may be, and the responsibilities on you that that poor birds out there trying to survive that winter and so on and so forth.

Nicole: 28:58

Yeah, I definitely think that the conservation and education is important. So with that being said, if somebody wants to learn more about what you're doing or maybe they have some needs first and often abatement. How can they go about getting some more information and find you online?

Vahé 29:13

Absolutely. We have a very informative and very image heavy website and that is www.falconforce.com. We are also on Instagram under Falconforce_falconry. Also, I guess I can toot my own horn being a photographer. So the both both sites are extremely image heavy. And there's a lot of information that comes on the website locations and events that we normally partake. So there's a lot of information out there and there's a ton of information further on just the general internet.

Nicole: 29:47

Yeah, I know you have some really great pictures in the in the photography background totally makes sense. And some really great videos too. I enjoyed watching the videos on your website of watching your birds work fields.

Vahé 29:58

Yes. And actually you said that the brought another. We are actually we last year we shot with Warner Brothers in London. And they shot for a an episode for Netflix that is going to be released somewhere after the 15th of January. I don't know the link yet, but that will be put on the website. And the general public can hopefully see that. Maybe not at the beginning after they have run their course. And then finally we'll hopefully get kicked out. But there may be a little appearance of us on that. We have been on many publications and LA Times cover of New York Times cover and Seattle Times cover. We've been on "Mike Rowe's 'Someone's got to do it'". We shot an episode with him a couple years ago, we've been on "Storage Wars" as an apprentice that's not an apprentice as an appraiser. So there's a lot of a lot of, you know, presence out there that we've been mean that they've partaken.

Nicole: 30:55

Well, that's wonderful. We definitely need to get the word out there and inspire some new falconers.

Vahé 30:59

Yeah, that's the idea.

Nicole: 31:02

Well, but hey, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me and share your information about falconry. And now you've got me all fired up.

Vahé 31:09

Oh, you should, you should get right back into it.

Nicole: 31:11

I know I need to. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time today.

Vahé 31:15

My pleasure, anytime.

Nicole: 31:16

And for those of you listening, thank you so much for joining us for another episode, and we'll see you again next week.

Announcer: 31:24

Thank you for listening to Backyard Bounty, a podcast by HeritageAcresMarket.com. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. If you have a question you'd like us to answer on the show, please email us at "[email protected]". Also find us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Heritage Acres Market. All the links mentioned in this podcast will be included in the description. See you again next week.