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Join Nicole and Michelle of SoulyRested as they chat about how to make Maple Syrup.
What You’ll Learn
- Which trees syrup can be made from?
- How to process syrup
- Michelle’s favorite ways to use maple syrup
- What are the benefits of syrup?
- How to cut the cost of syrup making through reverse osmosis
Michelle lives in New England with her husband and two daughters (another two daughters are grown) on a 14-acre homestead. She is a published author of the book Sweet Maple: Backyard Sugarmaking From Tap to Table (see link below), which is an excellent resource on how to make maple syrup.
Resources & Links Mentioned
- SoulyRested Website
- SoulyRested Syrup Making Webpage
- Reverse Osmosis Information
- SoulyRested Facebook Page
- SoulyRested Instagram Page
- SoulyRested YouTube
- SoulyRested Pinterest
- Simple Doesn’t Mean Easy Podcast
- Nathalie Tufenkji Maple Syrup Research
- *Berkey filters
- *Sweet Maple: Backyard Sugarmaking from Tap to Table Paperback Edition
- *Sweet Maple: Backyard Sugarmaking from Tap to Table Kindle Edition
- Related Episode: How To Make Kombucha ft. SoulyRested
*Denotes affiliate links
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Welcome to the Backyard Bounty Podcast from HeritageAcresMarket.com, where we talk about all things backyard poultry, beekeeping, gardening, sustainable living, and more. And now here's your host, Nicole.
Hello, everybody. And thank you for joining me for another episode of Backyard Bounty. I'm your host Nicole and today I'm joined by Michelle with Souly Rested and today we are going to talk about everything you need to know about making maple syrup. And so Michelle, thank you so much for joining me today.
Thanks for having me, Nicole. Anytime anybody wants to talk about maple syrup, I'm pretty much always there. So you asked and I said yes.
Which is exciting. And for those of you that may have followed us along, you and I did an episode, gosh, a while ago about Kombucha too.
Yes. And in fact, you know, great minds think alike. I was gonna mention that as well. So it actually relates believable or not there is a correlation to Kombucha and maple syrup. So it relates.
What episode was that? I don't remember.
It was Episode 17.
Back in the early days.
How about that! feel quite honored I was way back then.
Yeah, let's see your this is like Episode 64,65, 66 something like that. So here we are.
So, again if those of you that maybe have not listened to Episode 17, Michelle has a lovely homestead in New England with all kinds of excitement I know. You know, I follow you on Instagram. So you recently got pigs and you have your sugar bush and you do the Kombucha. You have the most amazing house in the whole wide world and I absolutely love it.
Well, my husband Bill would totally disagree with you because it is pretty much just like a money pit. I mean old houses. It's just but I agree with you because I think it's an amazing house. But you forgot the meat chickens, maybe you missed that on Instagram. By the way, I love it that you follow me on Instagram, but I love following you too. But we also have meat chickens for the first time ever. So that was a new thing for us. We have helped friends in the past, we knew our way around the processing of the chickens, but it was the first time we had done it ourselves from beginning to end. And to open my freezer, I've done it like a dozen times a day since then, to open my freezer and just stare at a full freezer of meat that we completely raised from beginning to end. Feels really cool.
I bet that sounds really exciting, something that more people I think are driven to do these days. And I think it's really wonderful.
So maple syrup. I mean, is it have to be just Maple or is there other trees that we can make other delicious syrups from?
Absolutely. That's one big thing that nobody really understands about syrup, because we always call it maple syrup. So you we assume it's only maple trees. But you can make syrup from a whole lot of trees. There are actually, I mean, most people assume that you need a Sugar Maple. And I'll tell you why people assume that because that is like the holy grail of sap collection, it's going to give you the best production of your syrup because it's higher in sugar content than any other tree sap. And it's just, it turns out a really sweet delicious syrup. But there are a whole lot of maple trees out there a lot of different varieties and many of those varieties are just as good for maple syrup as a Sugar Maple. But on top of that, and this is what people really don't know, you could have walnut trees, you can have various varieties of a birch tree. You can even have a sycamore tree or a sweet gum tree in your yard. And you can make syrup.
How interesting. And is the process kind of the same regardless of the type of tree that you're pulling syrup from?
It is. So at some point in our talk today I can break down the process for you and yes, whether you have a birch tree or walnut tree, or a different variety of a maple tree, it's the same process. The difference is, especially with birch syrup, that if you are using a sap that is much lower quantity of sugar than what you're going to find in a Sugar Maple, then your boiling process gets more complicated. And it's a much longer process and I'm going to mention one certain way that we filter that I'm going to tell you is optional. Well, if you're using a birch tree, this way of filtering is pretty much absolutely necessary because otherwise you will be boiling all day and still not have syrup. So there are slight differences but in general, yes, if you're going to make syrup from sap, it's the same general process.
And I assume that there's probably some variety and taste depending on the tree or?
Absolutely. That is definitely true. I find with maple I personally don't see any difference no matter which variety of maple you're using. But definitely with walnut and birch it's a different flavor. Birch is a flavor that I prefer I don't care for the syrup, which I get some frowns from my friend up in Alaska, who Dulce East she makes all kinds of things with her birch syrup. It's pretty famous syrup. She sent me a sample and she just wasn't happy that I wasn't crazy about the syrup because I'm used to maple syrup and the taste is very different. I actually think that birch syrup is more like molasses. And it's great for baking. I love it. But what I finally did with Dulce's syrup was I used it to make my Maple Peanut Butter because it's great in things like that. It's really good for marinating. So if you have a different variety of tree other than a Sugar Maple, if you're not crazy about the flavor of your syrup in the end, I promise you there's a whole lot of ways you can use it even if you're not going to put it on your pancakes.
So what do you guys have on your homestead? Do you have just the Sugar Maple or do you have a variety?
We actually on our 14 acres have a whole lot different trees, but because we have so many Sugar Maples mixed in, as long as we are creative about how we run our tubing, and if we get good at our collection process, then we can only use Sugar Maples and have plenty of syrup.
So before we start talking about the process of making it, because I imagine that this is sort of related, but if it was just me and my family and we wanted to have some syrup for our pancakes on Sundays, or you know, whatever, once a week, how many trees would we need to get, you know, an average usable amount?
Yep. I can tell you our first year that we tapped trees, I can't remember exactly how many it was somewhere less than a handful of trees. Maybe it was only two or three. And we wound up with... here I'm going to give you an example, and you know what, Nicole, I don't know the numbers! I can tell you with almost tapping, like, somewhere from two to five trees, we had enough syrup for basic, general limited use. So like, you know, it only came out on special occasions and we only used it for our pancakes. But we had enough until the next syrup season. But those were Sugar Maples. So if you're using a different variety of maple, you're going to get less syrup in the end. But aside from all that, I would say if you only have one tappable tree on your property, I highly recommend you still tap the tree. If it's not enough sap to boil down and make syrup you can absolutely use it as a drink and drink it instead of water every day. You have another glass of this amazing liquid that's filled with antioxidants and other great stuff that maybe we'll get into. But it's also such a fascinating process. And if you have a kid interested even more reason to do it. Like it's such a great experience to realize in this tree right there in your yard, you had no idea before, but there's this sweet water running through it loaded with minerals and antioxidants that you can drink. How cool is that?
Yeah, I actually didn't realize that you could drink it unprocessed or whatever.
Huh, neat! See, I've already learned something. So I think that we've all kind of seen the pictures of the buckets hanging on the side of the tree, which are hanging on the tap. But can you kind of explain the process of tapping the trees and then after you've collected the syrup, how we actually, or after we've collected the sap how you make the syrup?
Sure. First of all, I'll tell you that those beautiful, quaint pictures are never the way you're going to see anything here on our homestead. And it's not the typical way. It's just not effective because your bucket that's holding that sap is I think it holds like two to three gallons, and it's kind of a pain honestly to pick it up off of that little hook that it's on and pour it into something else, and then put it back up on the tree. So we actually have never collected sap that beautifully quaint way. We've talked about it because we have Sugar Maple trees that line our drive. And it's like, "Oh, it looks so pretty." And, you know, to pull up the drive and say, but it's just we don't want to have to have one more thing we have to go collect, that's kind of inconvenient kind of a pain. And honestly, a Sugar Maple is going to overflow. For us at least here in my experience, it's going to overflow that two or three gallon container. We often have five gallon buckets sitting at the base of our trees that have overflowed in the 24 hour period before I collected again. Yeah, so.
Just so you know that beautifully quaint picture is not the way you'll find things here at least. But basically, it's every day that we're collecting sap, but it definitely depends on the weather. It's usually about four to six weeks, here in New England, where we live that we're having sap flowing from the trees. On a bad year, it could only be two to three weeks depending, and I say bad as far as the conditions the weather conditions aren't the perfect flowing sap conditions some years. But the longest time typically you'd find is about a six weeks period. But it's not like every day, in that six weeks. Again, it depends on the weather. If it doesn't get cold enough at night, if the temperatures to rise enough that day, then you're not going to have productive sap flow. And you could only have an inch or two in the bottom of your bucket when you're collecting. And like I said, other days, it might be you waited too late in the day and you have lost sap it's overflowed through the little hole that the tube goes through on the lid and it's flowing down the bucket. But we typically try to around the same time every day, usually it's about four o'clock here before it gets pitch dark because it gets dark and New England pretty early. So we try to go out before it gets dark, and my daughters and I will go around and collect those buckets that are near the house and try to have them all lined up before Bill gets home from work. And then we have a whole series of tubing, I think I alluded to running through our woods, that are collecting sap from all these trees that aren't close to our house, and it would be really inconvenient to go try and collect buckets from all of them. So we have tubing that collects through the woods into a couple very large containers. In my book, I show some pictures and talk more detail about how that works. But I don't know if we mentioned my book, actually, did we mention that?
We did not.
Oh, well, maybe I should explain. It's called Sweet Maple. And it basically is filled with every detail. Anybody like you, Nicole, could want to know if they have even one tappable tree in their yard or maybe if they have hundreds of tappable trees. This book is going to help them through the process.
Yeah, it was a ton of fun putting together. So we didn't have this the first, I guess, four years of doing our syrup production. We just did what I told you up to this point, we would just collect the buckets, whatever we could get to is where we tap those trees. We didn't go too far from the house. And that was what we use to make our syrup. But once we got a Gator, this awesome four wheel thing that goes through the woods, you know, that's when we really upped it. That's when we added those lines coming to the big collection tank and my husband has these fancy pumps that he uses. All of this, I outline actually in a particular blog post on my blog, if anybody wants, details about how you use these lines and what kind of pump you use to collect from those big collection tanks. But so now we have that combination. We have that side of the collection out in the woods. And then we have the buckets that are close by the my daughters and I gather up so that all is step one. That was a long story. Step one, is you just need to gather your sap. Then the second step, once you're ready to get things hooked up and start boiling for the evening, you need to filter the sap. And a lot of people will filter it just through something like an old T-shirt, or a coffee filter. And if you're that person that literally has one tree and you're collecting enough sap over many days to then boil it, that's fine. If you want to use a T-shirt or coffee filter, that's totally fine. But I can tell you from experience, if you have quite a few buckets in front of you of sap, you really don't want to mess with that way because it really becomes quite a pain. So we use a special felt filter. Actually, anybody who'd like to know all the different things that I'm going to mention today, or exactly what kind of filter I use, I highlight all of that at SoulyRested.com/MapleSyrupMaking, and I won't go into any more details about the specifics because you can find it there.
But you filter this out. And then step three, I alluded to this earlier, when I was talking about birch syrup, you need to filter it again. But this is not a need to I shouldn't have said need to, and we filter it again. there's something called an R-O filter, which stands for reverse osmosis. And it's basically just a handmade, homemade thing that Bill put together and I have all the directions for that too. Everything you need to know if you ever want to build one at SoulyRested.com/RO, but it's this fancy little contraption that's really not fancy at all. And we run the syrup through that extra filter because when it does, it's a really neat Nicole. it's like, do you have a filter on your kitchen sink? I know we do. Like do you filter your water?
No, I just use a Berkey filter,
Okay, okay. It's the same concept as that when you have like under your sink and for this filter we use for our syrup, it is the exact opposite because when you have your Berkey filter, what you wind up with in the end is what you're drinking. And it's taking out all those impurities in the filter. Well with this reverse osmosis filter for maple syrup, it's actually sap at that point, for your sap, what you're doing is you're taking out all the impurities and you're keeping it because those quote unquote impurities, it's the sugar, it's the good stuff,.
And what you're getting rid of, is the water, the extra stuff.
I also drink that too. It's called permeate, and it's absolutely delicious. It's just naturally filtered, amazing, best you've ever tasted water and we drink that too. But what you get on the other end is what you're then going to step four with, which is boiling your sap. It's important on step four that you are always outside. People have told me "Oh, I do it inside. It's fine." And I go, you know what, that's okay. But I'm never going to try that because it is never going to get off my walls or my kitchen cabinet. It's going to be back behind my stove forever. So, I always boil outside because it takes a long time and you're boiling away a whole lot. And it's a syrupy water that you're boiling off so that stays outside. We just use a big, I guess it's a 16 gallon pot that we put over a propane tank flame.
Like the turkey fryer kind of thing?
Exactly. And you can even get fancy ones we like on your for I think Bill discovered these ones that have a spout on the bottom of the turkey fryer. Yeah, and it even has this little temperature gauge. So you know, it's just men and their toys and you throw in some maple syrup, and every year he finds some other fancy thing that he has to have. But what we do is not the fancy way as far as the real sugar makers, they have this wonderful thing called an evaporator. You also can make an evaporator set up using cinder blocks and like those restaurants style pans that people put on buffet tables. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about, okay, and wood fire underneath. So that's a better way. But for a couple reasons we have never upped to that level yet. And we use our turkey fryer, which is really the way in those backyard sugar makers that only have a handful of trees, it's the way they usually do it. It's just more convenient, easier for a lot of reasons.
So anyway, that's the part that takes the longest.
About how long does the boiling, like when you say it takes the longest? Hours? Is it a period of days?
It depends on how much sap you're going to process that night. It has been the case that sometimes we we don't save the sap, we get it boiled down and we're ready to process all in one day, like on a weekend. It could be a day process, but like I said, it really depends on how much sap you're putting in there. And if you don't get finished for that night, it's okay. It's okay to turn it off, covered up and then start it back up in the morning. Just so unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly how long it takes like to boil down five gallons, I don't know, because we'll add more as we go until it gets...
Yeah, so but after you've gotten to a certain point, and you can tell it by a few different ways. You can tell by the temperature and the consistency. When it gets down to the right level, you then need to filter it again. But at that point, I do take it inside because you want to monitor very closely when the temperature and what's called the Brix, which is basically just referring to your sugar content. When it gets really close to what you call syrup, then you want to have it inside, so you can monitor with a few different instruments and I list all them on that page I referenced. But that's hard to do outside. So when it's the right time, we'll take it from outside into inside but the step that comes in between is one more filtering. There's three filters that go on. Actually four because we like to filter before it goes into the bottle. So filtering, if you can't tell is pretty important.
It sounds like it.
Yeah, and it gets old hat sometimes if you're tired and the day is getting away, but we never skip this filter because when you've been outside, you have impurities that have blown in, little pieces of leaves or who knows what. And we always want to filter it again before we boil it inside because if you don't, you're most likely going to have a bitter tasting syrup. But if you get them out before that final little boil, it's going to be a much better taste. So one more time, we'll filter it through our cone filter. And then inside, that part I can tell you can take definitely hours again, it just there's so many factors that are changing actually by the year even as far as the sap consistency. So it could be 15 minutes inside. It could be a few hours, but when you're monitoring it with these few different instruments, you need a thermometer and you need either a hydrometer or a refractometer or maybe even something called a Murphy's cup. I won't go into it because totally totally bores me honestly. But again, it's all it's all written out on those pages on my site, but you're monitoring closely, and at that point, you are ready to soon bottle it. You again, like I said, filter it so it's not up to five filters. Oh my gosh, I've never thought about that. Nicole. Oh, my goodness. Okay, one more filter, and then you're putting it into your bottles and because of the high temperature, you don't need to can your syrup once it's in a bottle. I see so many people talking about canning and I go "No, no!", I saw somebody on Instagram this last winter, put it under Stories and I actually reached out to them really you really don't need to can it because it builds up this Nitre, which is the impurities that are in your syrup. Even if you filtered five different times. There are still natural impurities in the syrup that if you can it and put it at that high temperature the Nitre breaks down and builds up and in like a month or two when you go to your pantry shelf to get that bottle of syrup down that you canned, you're going to see this inch or two of Nitre in the bottom of your syrup. Which is edible, It's not going to hurt you as long as all the materials that you used up to this point were not aluminum, then you're not going to have any problem with that Nitre having anything bad for you in it. But it's just not something people like in there sir. So no need to can it, you just filter it that last time and put it into your bottle and seal it. The canning lid will automatically seal because of the temperature of the syrup and you're done. Finally, finally, you can store it pretty much indefinitely people will ask "Well, what's the shelf life?". Well honestly if you have sealed it correctly, I'm pretty sure your great great grandkids could be enjoying it if it ever lasst that long.
Now, you mentioned the use of aluminum, does that not play nice with the maple syrup?
It doesn't because some of that aluminum can break down into your syrup. And for lots of reasons, you don't want to eat aluminum. So you do want to you want to use a good pot. And like I said, I linked to some different options on my site.
Gotcha. Interesting. So now that you have this labor of love maple syrup, what are some of your favorite ways to use it? I mean, we all love maple syrup on pancakes, but what are some other ways that you like to use it?
I'm so glad that you asked that Nicole because most people actually don't realize there's like other uses for it, which was kind of one of my goals was Sweet Maple, not only to help people know how to make syrup, but honestly to know how to use it because it is so good for us. It's loaded with so many wonderful things that are good for our diet and good for our bodies. And if you can replace your refined sugar with sugar that has good stuff in it, I mean, please do so. So you can use it over your cold cereal or over your hot oatmeal. You can use it to sweeten your yogurt. I love it over ice cream. My personal favorite way I like making maple sugar out of it, which I explain all the exact details of the whole process of how to do that in Sweet Maple. It's really simple. And I love the sugar because it can then be shelf stable after it's been opened and sitting on my counter because I want it handy to grab every day pretty much to put some in my hot tea.
Yeah, it's really good and any variety of tea and then I'm not a coffee drinker. Are you a coffee drinker Nicole?
Well, then maybe you shouldn't listen to this because you might become overly obsessed. But it's great and coffee I'm told. Like I said, I don't drink it, but I'm told Maple Coffee is like to die for.
Hmm. I'm gonna have to try it tomorrow.
There you go. So you can use maple syrup in your coffee or in your tea. But once you open that can that you bottled, you know, you have to keep it in the fridge at that point. And I just want it a little more handy than that sometimes. But I'm told I haven't done this. I'm told it's delicious on scallops. I actually have a recipe in the book from a reader that I put in the book because I thought that just sounds so good, but I haven't yet tried it. And oh, this one you're gonna think is kind of crazy, but it's really good on roasted vegetables like Brussel Sprouts. Yeah, it's good to brush it over your bacon. I like to bake my bacon in the oven just on a I use a baking stone. I bake it at 350 for like 20 or 25 minutes. Brush some maple syrup on that bacon righ before it's done, oh... it's so good!
We had a gal here that used to make bacon maple syrup cupcakes.
Oh my goodness. That's actually sounds good to me. I know that probably sounds worse to a lot of people.
It was amazing!
I have made cookies with, this is going to sound really weird that I'm telling you this, but I have put bacon grease in cookies.
Yeah, I'm sure maple bacon cupcakes are good too. Oh, and last thing that I will tell you of a way to use maple syrup. If you are a dog fanatic like I am. You have dogs up?
Yeah. I love my Labradoodle. And yes, he does get a little spoiled.
Yes, Bixby. And he does get a little spoiled sometimes. And yes, I actually do make dog treats for him that I use maple syrup. And he loves them.
Yeah. So lots of reasons to use it. And then I'll just quickly break down for you. I've been alluding to it but I'll tell you some of the amazing things in syrup because I think that is a good note to end on. Because when people understand that all of this is in syrup, and they maybe have a tree they can tap next year, they really might be inspired to do so. And by the way, I should also say if you don't have any trees that are tappable if you live in a desert, I do have some syrup folks that I highly recommend, on SoulyRested.com/Resources. You can find links to a couple different sources of amazing syrup. It does matter. Maybe that's sort of another podcast of how to choose your syrup and why it matters.
Much like honey, it matters where you get it.
I'm sure it does, it does. So be assured that as you're using it, it's not just a sugar. First of all, it has an immune boosting polyphenols in it. They improve your health in lots of different ways. But they help like if you have any sort of digestion issues, polyphenols are really important to have in your diet. They help with weight management difficulties and they even help with diabetes, which is crazy to think about. This is a natural occurring sugar that actually has properties that can help someone fight diabetes. It doesn't really make sense. But it's true. And polyphenols help with neuro degenerative disease kind of things and cardiovascular problems. So polyphenols are really important to have in your diet. And they come from a lot of plant based food.
So like, you know, spinach and blueberries, you're going to find lots of polyphenols, but people don't often think of a tree as a source of food. But when you realize that's where maple syrup comes from, how it makes sense, of course, there will be a lot of polyphenols in your syrup. You'll also find lots of antioxidants, you'll find this wonderful natural fiber called Inulin that a prebiotic, and then you'll also find naturally occurring probiotics, which is this great bacteria for your gut, which we've already talked about with kombucha, right? Why is so great to have the probiotics in what you're drinking. So if you have a combination of prebiotics and probiotics in one source, like maple syrup, it's fantastic the way those two work together for your overall health. And then you'll also find even anti inflammatory properties in maple syrup. So I don't know if this is like actually true, but if you can have a tablespoon of maple syrup instead of popping an ibuprofen tablet, wouldn't that be great?
Yeah. So it's incredible on I even I spoke to in the process of writing my book, I spoke to this amazing lady. Her name was Natalie Tufenkji, I believe is how she says her name, and she's a professor in the Chemical Engineering Department at McGill University in Quebec, Canada, and when I interviewed her, I hung up that phone like pretty much ready to get on a bandwagon and start a parade and make sure that every home in America had maple syrup in their kitchen. Because it's insane the way she was explaining to me that there are compounds and maple syrup that we have found nowhere else in nature and the compounds are even different depending on if you're looking at maple sap versus maple syrup, which is why I recommend you always drink a cup of your maple sap if you have any available that during the maple season because there are compounds in the sap that change through the chemical process of boiling it when you're making syrup. So both of those items, the SAP and the syrup have amazing wonderful properties that are good for your overall health. And it's just kind of crazy how she broke it down for me which I can't even relay back to you because I'm not a chemical engineer but basically the syrup that you slather on your pancakes has these minute compounds that scientists can extract. And this is what Natalie is doing. And they are working on making extract capsules or like pills that you can take that kill bacteria. And the idea is if you have a superbug, you know, one of those bacterial infections that penicillin is not getting rid of, or it's like these, these bugs have built up an immunity to penicillin or other things like that. And these super bugs, we're afraid we're not going to be able to kill eventually because of the immunity built up. But what Natalie was working on and a lot of other colleagues at McGill University, is this pill that if you take at the same time as your penicillin, it will kill the bug 90% more effectively than without this maple syrup pill.
It's really neat, fascinating stuff and it's like cutting edge stuff that they haven't yet released all the studies so she could only tell me certain things. But it's just amazing. So to think about that kind of stuff in Maple Syrup that I can use to sweeten my cup of tea in the morning. I am all in.
Absolutely. Wow, that's really interesting. Nature's such has so many secrets. It really does.
So if I want to go and start my own sugar bush and really you know go gung ho on this obviously, sounds like I need you your Sweet Maple book and then your website, SoulyRested.com. What other resources do you recommend? Where can we find you? Where can we get more information?
I have a Facebook group that is solely for maple syrup making and that's what's called Maple Syrup Making and on there you can get in contact with a lot of different syrup makers, sugar makers across the nation around the world. So I personally don't know a lot about how to make walnut syrup. But you will find experts in this group who do who would be happy to help you. And like you said, I have an Instagram page during sugar making season. I pretty much like make everybody sick of the topic of maple syrup. So if you want more information, my Instagram page it's Souly.Rested is another great place to follow.
And that's "S-O-U-L-Y".
Thank you. Yes.
Awesome. Well, Michelle, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time and you're having you back on the show and sharing information about maple syrup, something I've really wanted to learn more about myself. So thank you so much. I sure appreciate it.
And I just have to say thanks for having me back. Cuz you know, after the first time, I was just surprised you want me back!
I just you know, I start talking about things I love like kombucha and maple syrup. And I go on and on. So sorry if I talked your ear off.
No, not at all I would, I would love to talk to you again, you're such a wealth of information and your voice is so lovely. And I really just enjoy talking to you.
Well, thank you, I feel the same way Nicole, so we'll have to do it again.
Absolutely. And for those of you listening, thank you so much for joining us for another episode. If you do enjoy our episodes, please check out our show notes where we have a link to sign up to get episodes sent directly to your inbox every week. And thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you again next week.
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